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I have big concerns about the validity of and initial implementation of Special:AbuseFilter/52, especially in light of [1] where even good-faith improvement file moves by registered users are prohibited and locked behind a "Mods and higher only" wall. I strongly wish to request that the implementation of that filter be reconsidered and likely changed in some way. Dandelion Sprout (talk) 01:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
The filter was created to restore the previous pre-UCP behaviour on the wiki, which was that files could only be moved by admins and content mods. This is also default behaviour on Wikipedia and other related projects. There are a few reasons for this:
Files can be used on many pages, and so restricting file moves can limit the potential for damage from page move vandalism.
When a file is moved, links pointing to it need to be updated; most users forget to do this, which can cause problems if the file is ever moved again (as double redirects are not followed).
Pre-UCP, non-admins could not suppress redirects when moving pages; but post-UCP, this was changed. The ability to suppress redirects can cause widespread damage if misused, and most non-admins and non-content mods don't understand the ramifications for suppressing redirects (there is rarely a case where a redirect would need to be suppressed when moving a page).
Lastly, files with bad names generally aren't a huge issue, compared to an article with a bad name. There's rarely a need to urgently move files because of their name. Unlike articles, most readers don't search for files by their name, and it's only shown to them when they click on a file; it's not shown or relevant when they are simply reading an article. As such, file maintenance—although important—is something that is risky enough that it shouldn't be open to everyone, but also not critical enough that admins and content mods would need to delegate the task to non-admins.
Presently, file renaming can be requested on the administrators' noticeboard, which is linked to in the message the filter provides. If there is consensus, the file move restriction can be adjusted (say, to allow accounts above a certain age and edit count), à la filter 51, which was created because we had some particularly bad cases of brand new accounts moving pages (i.e. this and this). Thankfully they didn't move any files, but it's a much bigger hassle to have to clean up after file move vandalism, especially if NSFW images are involved. I would still prefer only users that understand what file moving entails to be able to move files, though; in particular, understanding that suppressing redirects shouldn't be done unless there's a good reason for it. —k6ka🍁 (Talk · Contributions) 02:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
New family icons[]
As my article says, I want to replace the family icons. To copypaste my thoughts:
I think I'm the only one who doesn't really like the icons in the wiki for family purposes, or at least some of them. They're very… inconsistent. My issues are specifically for siblings (and children to some extent), and the neutral child icon being different from the gendered child. I've already adopted and as green, so I think it should be green. Here are my ideas:
This would replace as the "Child" parameter.
These would replace as the "Adopted Child" parameter and there would be neutral, male, and female versions.
This would replace as the "Adopted Sibling" parameter and there would be nonbinary, male, and female versions.
My only concerns are the fact that the adopted sibling might be too similar to , but it is on the opposite corner and is a different shape.
What do you think? I'd love to hear any comments on whether I should do this. I’m K.P.! Toss me a message if you need help! 15:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
You may have noticed all careers now are in templates, with a new CSS table theme, containing other smaller templates and some tabbers added to career pages. I originally just wanted to make tables that can also be view in dark mode (originally many were completely illegible in dark/night mode) and tried to better communicate these updates with admins but since no admin really showed interest, I took it upon to do these upgrades and updates myself.
Since I had no one to bounce ideas off of or get permission, I had to make some decisions and just hope the community is ok with them. But because these are all now templates, changes are now easier to be made—if the community wishes to make consensus changes. I didn't really want to come in and just take over but to at least upgrade the tables to templates but now they are upgraded the community can have say and input if further tweaks and changes are desired. But major changes from this point on probably should be community consensus bases, since all career templates now have conformity. I am not opposed to changes as long as they are implemented universally—after all the time I put in template conforming.
To start what has changed is that all the Career Templates now used have almost all the exact same theme with similar designs but also tried to stay close to some original table structures. If it is wanted to be changed, note, it should be changed for all to keep conformity. The theme is mostly done via CSS, inspired by general Sims light/medium/medium-dark blues themes (some colours taken from actually screenshots of the UI). I also changed the right columns to a 30% width conformity, all career templates adhere to 30% for the right column(s), % is better than px size due to screen sizing, as a general rule.
I also created {{Icon}} template to remove all the excess icon image files html clutter, {{Time}} template to display time and the time image more neatly and less html clutter and {{DayOff}} template to display days off in a less highlighting manner.
I retired 10 pre-existing career templates, but I tried to minimize edits to the newest Sims 4 career templates since it is the newest template still being used and updated. I didn't want to overly interfere. But one thing I did change was to conform Sims 4 careers to use the same "Work Days" design formatting.
Sims 2 and Sims 3 use to highlight days off, but most (yet, not all) highlighted work days for Sims 4. So instead I made a template that sort of makes days off look less of a highlight, but changed Sims 4 careers to use days off template instead of highlighting work days (I hope I got these all right since some careers highlighted days off but most days on). If you disagree with this, remember this is about conforming all careers' design on the wiki. So it is not confusing to have most installments one way, and one another way. The community should decide which way to have it, and only if it will be changed for all careers, and not just those playing/editing for Sims 4 preference just for their installment. But I just decided to use the days off theme that was used on the majority of the wiki—since it was the majority and just to try to keep up the status quo.
Also, after the in depth editing while transferring to templates I noticed many career pages should be merged with other like careers, I found similar level names and themes, and other careers already merged in this similar manner. Now either they should be merged if similar/like enough, or split the articles already merged; we should commit to either or and not some and not others. It just looks sloppy to have it for some and not others.
Anyways, I thought since this was a large enough project, I'd at least explain the changes somewhere. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 22:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
New Simology Templates[]
The following simology templates have been created:
At first I was just removing prettytable and heading-blue from tables so that those in dark mode can read tables. When I decided to just make templates and remove all table html from the sim's article page for the simology section.
I tried to keep them similar to the simology templates already used but some needed to be nested templates, so they can be running lists. This might be a little more difficult for those not use to them, but it is a worth while update. If all simology tables are converted to templates, if design changes are wanted they are done at the template level and not the article level.
Those in light mode may not even notice changes, but those in dark mode will be able to read these table's headings now, if the template is used.
Sample of what dark mode sees/use to see:
A few examples
Also, as I am updating I am trying to add the second level of tabber when applicable. This makes for nice side by side game comparison of simology (example: Agnes Crumplebottom).
I also hope to update the icons for the Sims 4 Likes and Dislikes table, at this time I have placeholders but hope to replace with the in game resource of green smiley face and red frowny face (I just do not have the game). But when updated it is done at the template level so articles will automatically update.
The Likes and Dislikes table was made versatile so it can be used as one long table, or can be used in segments (like placed in columns). It can be all likes or dislikes or a mix.
Activities
Cooking
Painting
Video Gaming
Colors
Blue
Purple
Music
Baroque
Electronica
Metal
Spooky
Strange Tunes
Tween Pop
Decor
Art Deco
Farmhouse
Queen Anne
Shabby
Fashion
Polished
Anyways, those are the newest templates added, enjoy! Hollowness| Talk| Contr 00:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Simology templates have been updated/added for all "A-L" articles.Hollowness| Talk| Contr 19:27, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
Style Update[]
Fandom made an update in July that helps applying CSS without using the sitewide MediaWiki:Common.css, it is meant for templates or page exclusive stylings. So for the simology tables I made this page Template:Simology/styles.css, the style I applied was something I was toying with. However, if by community consensus the style can be changed. And at this time while I am getting use to this new CSS styling feature trying not to edit it while I tweak with it. If there is any questions or concerns about the current style I have made/applied feel free to message me. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 01:30, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
Comments[]
Hi! Thanks for linking me here. I do appreciate someone finally giving dark mode some VERY needed attention. But as I said before, I'd love to give input on some of them.
For instance;
Likes and dislikes could benefit from all being under one table like before. Maybe it's just me, but them being separated into small tables for separate categories makes them look a bit wonky, if that makes sense? Separating them only once the list gets too long makes it look more, I don't know, streamlined?
I also believe that the icon for Liked/Disliked activity/etc could be omitted as you're already looking at the Likes or the Dislikes tab.
Edit: Actually, making Likes & Dislikes one tab could justify keeping the little smiley faces. Interesting to note! Let me know what you think.
Same for Milestones, when and if you get to make templates for those as well. Everything's organized into one table with smaller headers separating the type of milestone achieved.
Most of what I'm worried about is tables like this one getting changed as it took me lots of brainstorming to come up with a design, and I find, as it stands right now, it's pretty comprehensible.
For relationships, since Lovestruck just came out, new relationship bits came out so I could come up with something to include everything.
Let me know!
ODAPHII (talk) 23:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
“
Actually, making Likes & Dislikes one tab could justify keeping the little smiley faces. Interesting to note! Let me know what you think.
”
I completely agree the Likes & Dislikes should be one tab, at this time, I am only updating to the new template trying to match the current design. I was hoping for feedback. It can be easily switched out and finding the pages already with the template is super easy too (Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:LikesDislikesTable).
“
Same for Milestones, when and if you get to make templates for those as well. Everything's organized into one table with smaller headers separating the type of milestone achieved.
”
This design should be fairly easily to preserve, I haven't come across any articles with this yet, if you have a few examples, I can try to start the template.
“
Most of what I'm worried about is tables like this one getting changed as it took me lots of brainstorming to come up with a design, and I find, as it stands right now, it's pretty comprehensible.
”
That looks like a very comprehensible table for sure. If it cannot be duplicated almost the exact the same, I can run by the template by you beforehand, to make sure you are happy with before implemented.
“
For relationships, since Lovestruck just came out, new relationship bits came out so I could come up with something to include everything.
”
If you could provide a sample with all the possible relationship components for Sims 4, I can try to accommodate these new components. We or you can update {{RelationshipTableSims4}} + {{RelationshipSims4}} templates, to better accommodate the new expansion. At this time I am just updating by what I am finding in each article I am crosschecking (so far I have done A-C). Hollowness| Talk| Contr 00:45, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the reply!
“
I completely agree the Likes & Dislikes should be one tab, at this time, I am only updating to the new template trying to match the current design. I was hoping for feedback. It can be easily switched out and finding the pages already with the template is super easy too (Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:LikesDislikesTable).
”
What do you think about the idea of using one table for them as well though?
“
This design should be fairly easily to preserve, I haven't come across any articles with this yet, if you have a few examples, I can try to start the template.
”
Those are mostly used in more recent Sims as Milestones are a fairly recent addition, although they ARE retroactively added to older Sims for certain events, like births etc. It'd be nice to have a template for when more Sims get added as they will more than likely have more specific Milestones (hopefully).
“
That looks like a very comprehensible table for sure. If it cannot be duplicated almost the exact the same, I can run by the template by you beforehand, to make sure you are happy with before implemented.
”
Thank you, I would really appreciate it! I'm no moderator, just an editor, so you're absolutely under no obligation to run anything by me, but I'm just the guy who made the tables & I'd hate to feel like my effort was all for naught. Unfortunately I'm more acquainted with HTML than I am with CSS, otherwise I would have made the switch myself.
“
If you could provide a sample with all the possible relationship components for Sims 4, I can try to accommodate these new components. We or you can update {{RelationshipTableSims4}} + {{RelationshipSims4}} templates, to better accommodate the new expansion. At this time I am just updating by what I am finding in each article I am crosschecking (so far I have done A-C).
”
Sure thing! I'll do that as soon as I can. But as you have seen there's social compatibility and family dynamics, Lovestruck came out with a romantic variant of both (chemistry and romance dynamics). We could also include sentiments and special relationship bits. I may have some ideas, I'll cook something up for you later!
What do you think about the idea of using one table for them as well though?
”
I am not sure, I am still getting use to seeing the Sims 4 Likes & Dislikes on articles. I'd say, what those who do actually play Sims 4 think is best. Since I don't play Sims 4; I'd be more inclined to accommodate those who do.
“
Those are mostly used in more recent Sims as Milestones are a fairly recent addition, although they ARE retroactively added to older Sims for certain events, like births etc. It'd be nice to have a template for when more Sims get added as they will more than likely have more specific Milestones (hopefully).
”
Are there any articles with the html version of the tables already implemented you can link me?
“
Thank you, I would really appreciate it! I'm no moderator, just an editor, so you're absolutely under no obligation to run anything by me, but I'm just the guy who made the tables & I'd hate to feel like my effort was all for naught. Unfortunately I'm more acquainted with HTML than I am with CSS, otherwise I would have made the switch myself.
”
I know, but since it is a concern for you, and you are most likely to use or edit the template, I'd like to be considerate. I am more use to HTML too but do have some CSS experience. However, we don't exactly have easy access to CSS until admins are more active or we get more active admins. Somethings I am implementing is temporary band-aids until we can update via CSS.
“
Sure thing! I'll do that as soon as I can. But as you have seen there's social compatibility and family dynamics, Lovestruck came out with a romantic variant of both (chemistry and romance dynamics). We could also include sentiments and special relationship bits. I may have some ideas, I'll cook something up for you later!
”
Cool! I created the template to better accommodate what I saw on the Sims 4 articles. So if it can be improved, that is great, I just tried to match other simology tables and the format that was on the articles originally :)
One thing I am trying to get since admins aren't being responsive to the admin noticeboard (and in some cases on their talk page) or trying to accommodate dark mode—is trying to figure out how to get more admins and content moderators on this wiki. I have been talking to LostInRiverview, though not really active, has responded and is in favour of it. So waiting on that, see if we can work something out. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 02:30, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
Tables[]
Hey there! I haven't had the time to come up with a mockup of the relationships template. However, I must say that I don't think the blue tables look really great in dark mode. They're essentially light mode tables slapped onto dark mode and they pop like crazy :(
I think what we had before using simple tabs with no colored background and a simple text color swap (white on black background for dark mode, black on white background for light mode, headers bluish with black font) was really good. Please tell me what you think!
Simology tables pop no more or less than the infoboxes, in fact they are more or less designed to match infoboxes and the Sims logo colours. IMO, if you/we are going to advocate for actual all dark-dark mode, you/we cannot stop at simology tables, it should be infoboxes too. I don't know if you can convince the admins or community to do that, at least easily. But I thought matching the simology templates somewhat to the infoboxes was a good choice as a start/baseline.
Bottom line we cannot have the dark background on fields displaying icons (and the GUI is let's face it on a light background and icons are best displayed on one), so we cannot go back to before. But I thought of another option, in case, to only have the cell that displays the icons on a light background, like this:
The tables have gradients that don't match the infoboxes alas. But at the end of the day, they're still way too bright for a dark mode which I use more often than light mode (I'm pretty sensitive to brightness and contrast and whatnot). But I have to ask, why would the icons not work on dark backgrounds? It has so far when I've done the tables myself (screenshot provided).
There's still the question of redesigning the relationship tabs but again I've yet to find a moment to separate the relationship bits, sentiments and dynamics/attraction/compatibility. Right now it's all together which is bleh :(
But also, there's the whole issue of there being a "one size fits all" relationship/skills/whatever tab, but sim infoboxes being separated by game. It just makes everything look a tiny bit disjointed.
The gradients is a little artistic license (and hoping to eventually extend to the infoboxes if the theme is accepted by consensus) but they do match/go the wiki's header bars (gradient (but direction change, I used Sims 4 GUI style) and colours) used on various pages and noticeboards. Literally, the colours are taken from the sims 3 (light) and 4 (dark) infoboxes. So to say they are disjointed isn't exactly true, they are based or exactly the same colours from the infobox and the wiki greenbar/bluebar.
So I think that is inaccurate to say they don't match/are disjoined, so please do not say that, if you personally do not like it that is fine you are entitled to your opinion. They may not match other infoboxes from other installments but they match they still match the Sims logo and the coloured bars.
I did not pull this theme out of the air, I was/I am following some pre-existing themes as a base line, so any complaints you have are on exiting themes already existing on the wiki, if you do not like this theme, it does not start with me and these table, I just kept going with it:
Welcome to The Sims Wiki
Welcome to The Sims Wiki
The previous tables had a baby blue headers, and many tables were illegible, that was not exactly dark mode, not matching the Sims theme either. This is at least an improvement, I am a dark mode user too, exclusively, but I am one that even in dark mode accepts tables/infoboxes/notices in GUI/pop colours. IMO I rather have tables/infoboxes/notices pop, than create a colour theme that doesn't match the game of a wiki at all to let icons and thumbnails get lost in the dark mode background.
I have showed the black icons that are lost on the background already in this discussion above, there are various black dark grey icons, not just icons, thumbnails too (I am upgrading the sims 3 from screenshots to thumbnails, which will not display well on a dark background either):
A few examples
Anyways, that aside, we cannot have a table colour that displays icons and thumbnails poorly. But I can't say the theme I extended on will be the final product either. We may not be able to have a true dark dark mode theme, and if your eyes are that sensitive, you may have to accommodate your own vision needs with personal CSS. Beyond that, I guess we need more feedback from the community, and go by consensus (at this time I can only try to help make improvements with your feedback in mind, which I thought I did by removing the baby blue headers and white background, that theme was not my cup of tea, but it was basically the old theme as seen in light mode, as a band-aid, till we had CSS capabilities which we do now at a template level).
As for the relationship tables, that can be improved anytime. The template contains the needed fields and can be redesigned at any time. If you have a better design it can be implemented very/fairly easily. In fact, I was thinking on it myself. After looking over Sims 4 GUI on relationship displays. How do you feel about a design like that? I was even thinking each relationship can have it's own collapse section to display the extended relationship data, so it can be mock displayed as if it was Sims 4 GUI. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 20:46, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
There's a lot of ground to cover in my reply, since I've been away from this since it started up til now. First, I'll just say that I really like the design of these tables. The old plain wikitables were in need of modernization, not to mention being made compatible with both modes instead of being light mode-exclusive -- that of course is a consequence of the fact that most of the tables were created before dark mode was even an option. I agree with keeping the background lighter, even in dark mode, because as Hollowness points out, the in-game GUI where the icons are used is primarily light-colored and thus the icons are designed with that in mind. There could be an argument to be made for darkening the background somewhat, which goes along to my next point...
I think the new table design is a solid riff on the current infobox design, but also (again) a modernization/improvement on that theme. I don't think that these tables are a full revolution, but more like an evolution, from the current infobox design. They aren't a perfect one-to-one match, but you can definitely tell that they are meant to be visually similar - maybe more like cousins, rather than identical twins. But I think that the differences between the style of the tables and the style of the infoboxes actually highlights the potential for modernizing the infoboxes to match the tables, rather than shoehorning the infobox style onto the tables. Though our current stock of templates, excluding these tables, have all essentially been the same design for the last several years, this wiki has had a history of evolving design styles over time. The creation of the "meta infobox" and "meta templates" was meant to create a unified visual style across the site, but wasn't meant to preserve a specific style forever (and in fact was meant to make future style updates easier to achieve by basing everything on a relatively small design foundation).
All this is to say, I would be intrigued to see the table design explored outside of these tables; I'd love to see what our infoboxes would look like if they were updated to match the tables. I am only one person, so I can't say whether the community broadly (insofar as it exists) would support a full redesign of the infoboxes, but I think it's something that could be explored and discussed further. It would also present an opportunity to maybe find a better way to handle dark mode -- to balance the need for legibility (which speaks towards keeping the background lighter) while also trying to make it more compatible with how dark mode should look. The current tables (and current infoboxes) definitely do stand out as a little too bright. -- LostInRiverviewtalk · blog · contribs 04:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
I was hoping when admins where able to be active again, since infobox style is only edited at the admin level, for a infobox/simology conformity (even if slightly matching more). Like I mentioned adding the gradient headers to the infobox—to help match better. Though we do not technically have to keep the sim logo and GUI themes, it is known and might be a good baseline to improving/evolving and conforming tables on the wiki. Tweaks can follow afterwards, especially after people noticing the changes they may want to chime in then.
I had 2 schools of thought on table design. The Infobox/Simology aka Sim pages having matching or like tables would be nice, even if it is not GUI colour themed. But for the other design theme lean more to GUI colours even if not a exact theme for skill, collection and other tables that may display GUI information like icons or thumbnails. I played with this (GUI inspired theme) while making the career tables legible for dark mode and upgrading to templates (but I did not make separate colour themes for light and dark mode at the time). I simply took sample colours of the GUI via screen shot and made a design to that effect. I also did 2 other table design themes similar to match for skills and collection tables but it was mostly to upgrade the look and replace the screen shot images with thumbnails. But of course if better themes/designs are decided that is fine. I just wanted legible tables in dark mode and upgrading icons/thumbnails for the wiki.
But if we did want to have less bright tables at least on non-Sim pages, I started making tables with icon displaying cells only with the light color (List of Wishes (almost finished updating) and List of Moodlets (The Sims 3) (about half way through)). This might be a nice compromise at least on articles without infoboxes. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 05:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, the basic tables have stuck out like a sore thumb for a long time now, since they clearly don't match the infoboxes in any way—not even including the whole light mode/dark mode problem. I think it'd be better to adopt something which is unified/cohesive throughout, rather than adopting different styles for non-infoboxed articles verus infoboxed articles. -- LostInRiverviewtalk · blog · contribs 05:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
If we do decide on a unified table/infobox/notice theme, sticking with the Sims logo theme colours might be the best option then, and just modernize the infoboxes and notice tables, then conforming the rest of the template design themes, and lastly (which is something else I have also been working on) giving the wikitables/article-tables/fandom-tables a matching design. This is started to be covered in the discussion below. I can show my updates on that today.
I have also played on the idea of extending the style past tables/infobox/notices, to better tied the wiki together with the partially formed design style already implemented. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 15:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
@LostInRiverview here are some quick small changes to infoboxes to better match the tables. One without variegated cell rows and one with variegated cell rows. And unless we want to make a major redesign this might be a worth while upgrade or as you mentioned evolution of the current theme.
I also wondered on how we'd deal with the templates that use rounded corners (border-radius) some old navigation templates have this and I also have them on my other templates. It is an in-game sim theme, but we don't have to follow it in the wiki. If we are to conform the design we have to decide which way to go. I have done all rounded, mix (as in headers are not rounded accept for the top of the first for example) and no rounding, for the various wikis I have done designs for. I like all looks personally, just as long as there is consistency on an article or the wiki. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 00:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Without and with variegated cell rows.
Use of mixed border-radius.
So I did make a collapsed and restructured Sims 4 Relationship template to better accommodate dynamic, compatibility and sentiment fields. As well as simplified the output (but note should be in lower case for those fields). Hollowness| Talk| Contr 01:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
The main thing I was thinking about in regards to the infoboxes was enlarging the header bars a little bit, so they are flush with either side of the box (in the same way that the table header has no gap between it and the top/sides of the table's box). But the variegation could work. I will admit that my first impression of it is... not great... but that could just be because I'm so used to the way the current design looks that anything besides that looks unusual to me.
Regarding corner radii, if you look back through the styles of the wiki over time, you can see a progression from non-rounded, to rounded (and sometimes significantly rounded), and then back to non-rounded in the current design. I am not strongly opposed to having rounded corners, so long as the overall look is consistent. This is a terrible thing to say, but I have so little experience with TS4 that I can't imagine its GUI/HUD or its menus, so I don't know how significant the rounding is there. Again, I'm not opposed to a design that follows the in-game designs more closely. I think the main thing is accepting that the template styles have to fit our needs rather than being an exact match to something in-game, which in turn suggests that our style should clearly allude to the in-game styles but without being exact replicas. Basically, it should look like there was some thought to have a cohesive style throughout the wiki, but also that the wiki style is an homage to the in-game style. The more valuable thing by far is the cohesive style across the wiki, so if we decide to go with something that is wholly not duplicating something in-game, that's not necessarily a deal-breaker. -- LostInRiverviewtalk · blog · contribs 05:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I do not have Sims 4 but I seen some screenshots (a very light grey to white gui, with the slight border radius and liner gradient green headers ). Sims 3/4 both have a lot of rounded corners but I am completely fine of skipping that on the wiki (I rather have a consistent theme or at least tie design themes to similar characteristics). The cellpadding should be an easy enough adjustment to fix infobox headers
Still have to adjust the image alignment if tabber is used, may have to be done at the template level or article level
. I think what I like about variegation of cells is so we don't have to have borders on tables, grid border like tables just can look so old and out of date, but on a infobox it isn't really needed but on other regular tables yes, so we don't have to have borders. Sims 3 uses variegation cells when displaying rows for collections, skill recipes, etc.
Back to dark mode/light mode themes for a moment. I think we, because of our limitations with icons/thumbnails, should think of it more as light/bright mode (similar to the screenshot I just posted) and medium/dark-ish mode with pop accent colours for both. Dark mode doesn't mean it has to be black mode, even if you look at the other wikis not all their dark modes are black/dark grey dark modes, some use no black/dark grey backgrounds. I like the charcoal grey background for dark mode but it doesn't mean the rest of the theme has to be dark and without colours or pop table themes. Basically, we couldn't really follow in game theme anyways for dark mode without turning dark mode into a less bright light mode or dark with pop colour tables and accents.
TBH, the wikis Theme Designer could use an update too. Plus I have a few fixes and in need of some old CSS removal. I'd love a week or a month to work with it, with live updates/testing period and leave an open discussion for the community to give feedback to see if we want to keep it or go back to the status quo. But I'd need admin rights and I'd really need to do a lot of updating and changes. Plus I have a few artistic design choices that may or may not be wanted to keep, but I think it be nice to give it a chance and have as a live beta testing period so the community can see the changes as they happen and give feedback. But in the end, ideally light mode would feel more like a Sims 4 (some Sims 3 influence too) GUI/HUD with a wiki theme merge, and dark mode would be a hybrid version with colour switch outs to work with the dark mode better. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 15:51, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
After some testing and thought, I actually think we should have at least 2 table themes Simology/Infobox as already shown. And a plain or plainer wikitable where if an icon or thumb is displayed only that cell needs the lighter background formatting at the very least for dark mode.
A small/medium Simology table and/or infobox (and maybe a matching languages table) isn't too overpowering on dark mode with this theme they just look like pop accents. But that same table theme on a 100% wide long table is very very overwhelming for a dark mode user. Also, for my previous table themes for skill, career and collections they are not as hard on the eyes (and are a more Sims 3 GUI/HUD doppelganger so eye complaints would mean you can't stand looking at the game LOL) when used at 100% compared to the Simology themes.
So I am either leaning at Simology/Infobox theme for Sim pages and a GUI/HUD on non-Sim pages and/or for dark mode a icon cell only background lighten up. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 22:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Hi there! Sorry for the bump and if this is not the right place, please move it to where it should be, but this is the only page I could find re: Sim templates discussions. I see the decision has been made to create transparent images of all (TS2) headshots. May I ask... why? Imo it turns the images of TS2 headshots very pixel-y and it looked fine with the black background. If no one cares that's fine, but like I said I couldn't find a discussion so thought to at least start one if it hadn't? 16:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
I think you wanted this Forum:Transferring to a clear background for headshots. Originally, it was because it is easier to use the in game generated heashots without doing the extra steps to add a background, and if a background was wanted could be done at the css level (any colour, meaning if themes change background colour can be changed for all infoboxes in 1 edit). What I suggest when we update our infoboxes (either with the new theme proposal or portable infoboxes) petition for adding the black backgrounds. I originally planned to re-add via css but then I got feedback to not to. So I am not sure what the community wants, but adding the black background via css is fairly easy enough. Just getting the wiki to make a theme or portable infobox migration happen—is taking way longer than anticipated. If you like I can message you when the discussion would come up again? Hollowness| Talk| Contr 17:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Family Tree templates[]
So unfortunately the family tree images used isn't the most dark mode friendly. I think would be better replaced with the family tree templates (Template:Familytree and Template:Familytree/element) which would need to be imported by admins (or maybe if admins do not help we can ask fandom staff).
We may or my not be able to modify to include images but the customizing of lines and boxes (and account for both light/dark mode), the extension of the template should provide all of the sim family tree complexities, and can be edited to add and update—instead of updating family tree images.
Example of a complex family tree use of the template Potterfamilytree. Most sim family trees should be easy enough to make and may take some time getting use to the templates but in the long run I think this would be worth it. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 17:54, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Ok I had fandom staff import the templates, and I have been playing around with them today. Good news, small and select branches seem ok with these templates, bad news highly complex templates or if they get too wide it creates issues. Here are some "so far so good" samples (if your window is too narrow and/or you have the Wikirail showing it may distort the Crumplebottom Tree). Hollowness| Talk| Contr 02:25, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Update, I think I sorted out the issues, we can have wide family trees now. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 15:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Trees are by blood or marriage. Pink/purple lines indicate partners; either in marriage or parents. Blue indicates family; child/children or siblings. At this time the widest the template can go is the Goth Crumplebottom Bachelor Family Tree example. I might try to see if I can add more fields for more complex family trees in the future (done). Also, there is a distortion when applying zoom style to the templates and some of the images on the end aren't showing in Chrome, I have placed a ticket with support to hopefully fix this (they have forwarded the issue).
↑Katrina's existence contradicts the Caliente family as seen in The Sims 2, in which Nighat Caliente is Nina and Dina's mother. A segment of the Behind the Sims livestream in 2023 focused on Katrina's origins, suggesting that she may be a clone of Nighat created after the latter's passing.
Icons were uploaded and in-game resource names used so that it can be cross referenced with the in game XML files. Some moodlets use some wish icons and some wishes used moodlets icons. Store moodlets use the moodlets provided via the store.
I didn't put a table design yet, until a decision is made on table designs. But one cell was designed to match the in-game backgrounds used to display moodlets and wishes, so that the icons can be seen properly and as meant to be seen in game.
Wishes were also recategorized to better match the XML files, since they had an internal categorization for wishes.
Wishes now use an icon overlay template to better match how the game overlays the icons, when two are used. When they do not use two, be sure to use the blank/transparent Placholder.png file, under the iconsmall field.
Upgrading to templates should make adding wishes/moodlets easier and when changing the overall design at a template level is much easier and better too. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 17:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Some traits have a very minimal displays of moodlets on trait article pages so a short summary template was also made.
Before
Screenshot image, and non-template.
Image
Moodlet Name
Notes
Can't Stand Art
Sims with this trait will receive this negative moodlet when looking at pieces of art or decoration. They can receive the "Calm Down" interaction while this moodlet is in effect.
Image
Moodlet Name
Mood Effect
Time Period
From
Game Dialog/Description
Notes
EP
Afraid of the Dark
-15
N/A
Darkness, Opportunity
Heading inside or finding a bit of sunlight will take care of this cowardly affliction.
Cowards get this when they're outside at night or having no lights in the house at night. Non-Cowards get It's Dark moodlet. Possible with Science Experiment.
&BG
After
Icon
Name
Notes
Can't Stand Art
Sims with this trait will receive this negative moodlet when looking at pieces of art or decoration. They can receive the "Calm Down" interaction while this moodlet is in effect.
Icon
Name
Effect
Cause
Description
Notes
EP
Stuffed
No Mood Effect
(3 hours)
Overeating
Forcing Sims to eat when they are not hungry may lead to a loss of appetite and weight gain.
Eating with this moodlet makes Sim fatter. Appears when eating while not hungry. Less likely to experience weight gain with the Fast Metabolism Lifetime Reward. Can get this moodlet from competing in an eating contest.
&BG
Entertained
+25 Mood
(6 hours)
High Fun Need
(Sim Name) is having quite a good time and is keeping stress down.
12 hours for Sims with No Sense of Humor. Timer will become frozen if the Sugar Rush moodlet appears. The moodlet is internally known as its previous name, "Amused," meaning this must have been a social moodlet before being repurposed.
&BG
Afraid of the Dark
-15 Mood
N/A
Darkness, Opportunity
Heading inside or finding a bit of sunlight will take care of this cowardly affliction.
Cowards get this when they're outside at night or having no lights in the house at night. Non-Cowards get It's Dark moodlet. Possible with Science Experiment.
Your Sim seeks to learn something new to enrich and enlighten. Have your Sim refine a talent to perhaps pick up a new skill!
&BG
Take a Class in Charisma Skill
500
Your Sim wants to take a Charisma Skill class to learn the skill.
&BG
Read a Book About Charisma
500
Learning new things opens the doorway for a variety of activities. Your Sim dreams of learning more about a skill. Send your Sim to the bookstore to buy a book on the topic!
&BG
Improve Charisma Skill
500
Learning is an exciting pursuit many Sims enjoy. Your Sim wants to improve a skill so they can do more things with the knowledge! Practice the skill until your Sim gains a level.
&BG
Master the Charisma Skill
5,000
Mastering a Skill takes a great patience and dedication, but your Sim aspires to be the best. Have your Sim practice the skill and complete Opportunities, and great things will happen.
&BG
After
Icon
Name
Lifetime Happiness
Description
Trigger
EP
Learn Charisma Skill
500
Your Sim wants to take a Charisma Skill class to learn the skill.
&BG
Take a Class in Charisma Skill
500
Your Sim wants to take a Charisma Skill class to learn the skill.
&BG
Read a Book About Charisma
500
Learning new things opens the doorway for a variety of activities. Your Sim dreams of learning more about a skill. Send your Sim to the bookstore to buy a book on the topic!
&BG
Improve Charisma Skill
500
Learning is an exciting pursuit many Sims enjoy. Your Sim wants to improve a skill so they can do more things with the knowledge! Practice the skill until your Sim gains a level.
&BG
Master the Charisma Skill
5,000
Mastering a Skill takes a great patience and dedication, but your Sim aspires to be the best. Have your Sim practice the skill and complete Opportunities, and great things will happen.
Since mentioned by LostInRiverview about the some of the wikis features in need of modernization, I thought I'd propose a theme I have started to work on. The idea is to update the wiki light/dark theme to a slightly less white light mode and a less dark dark mode to better display the new table themes. Inspiration is some of the wikis longstanding themes, Sims 3 and Sims 4 GUI/HUD.
As mentioned this is still in progress and even may require a live beta testing phase/transition phase to make sure the theme is consistent throughout the wiki and while updating throughout the wiki. Also, so that user feedback can be used to improve better an open discussion and site announcement about the change so people know where to discuss the changes. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 22:31, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Update
Much of the theme has been updated on the live testing w:c:lir-test:Theme Preview area. I even cleaned up the old CSS and organized it and added extra site suggestions. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 00:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Updated infobox theme, added more various page theme samples and added implementation steps.
A thought occurs to me... a wiki member mentioned on Discord that on other communities, their infoboxes are generally far less colorful than on TSW. Maybe it'd be possible to keep the underlying infobox color scheme (red for TS1, darker blue for TS2, light green for TS3, etc) but replace the background color with something either gray or dark gray (see attached screenshot). This would go with the idea you mentioned, of the light theme being more generally the bright/colorful theme (and maybe leaning more towards the TS4 aesthetic). The issue would be finding a background color that is acceptably desaturated and/or dark, but not so dark that the icons start failing to properly stand out against it. -- LostInRiverviewtalk · blog · contribs 03:28, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Only issue I can think of is that the backgrounds for Sims 3 is basically pastel and Sims 4 basically white, which means at best we'd have a mid ranged grey (so not even dark), which traits like now have the issue. Which if we are going that light we might as well have about the same template colour theme as we already have. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 04:20, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
This discussion appears to have stalled... I am curious, how close to finished would you say that this theme is? ―ฬђ(t)•(c)21:48, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
Besides deciding on the final logo, it is pretty much done (once in a while (because I am live testing on my personal CSS) I have the smallest tweak/updates now and then)), but I want to have a live testing and feedback phase on the actually wiki too (it is listed at the bottom of the w:c:lir-test:Theme Preview page). Just for those who don't give feedback till after it is force implemented into their face. I just think some people, unless it is implemented, won't speak up till then but should be able to still have a say, instead of saying sorry you missed the discussion phase; now it's too late. Then we can nail out the optional features due to live feedback. I think 1-3 months of live testing to get feedback and find errors if there are any (just because I can't predict all issues/if any until implementation/after implementation). Hollowness| Talk| Contr 22:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
My suggestion would be that when you think you have finished it to a standard that you are happy with, to make a thread in the community discussions forum where it would have more visibility. Regrettably discussions posted here tend not to get as much activity as discussions there. ―ฬђ(t)•(c)23:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
To be perfectly honest, until I turned my roll call thread into a vote thread (and I think ODAPHII spread the word on discord about the vote) no one was looking at the forums for months/a year. So it looked or actually was abandoned when I was making the theme originally. Also, it is already mentioned in the vote thread, it is a part of that proposal, so at this time in majority and no one openly talked against it (the theme). It is also mentioned in the logo forum thread. So I think making another post seems like overkill. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 00:17, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
Overview Template[]
A part of my theme proposal was introducing an alternate template to the All template. However, this can be stand alone, even if the theme is rejected. Currently the {{All}} template isn't even legible in dark mode and locked, but even if fixed, I think the {{Overview}} template is a worthy and obvious upgrade. You may have notice a bunch of Sims 4 skills are the first batch I have upgraded, I still need to do the skills that are shared with other installments, but I'll split those articles accordingly and then update.
{{Overview
|image = TS4 EP6 Official Screenshot 7.png
|icon = Skill TS4 Acting.png
|ep = TS4 EP6 GF Icon.png
|title = Acting
|text = The ability to bring a character to life, to tell a story, and to move Sims to tears is a genuine art. To these artist, life is a canvas.
}}
Note images and icons are direct links, do not add the brackets or anything.
I recommend leaving the text portion to in-game descriptions if applicable (quite a few are/were missing from articles, if anyone is interested in filling in that information) instead of a floating block quote in the article, and removing the skill icons or icon that was used to start the page moved to this template, to also get rid of floating icons from the articles. But note some of the transfers to the new template the image are zoomed in and cropped and a small amount of images appear out of context and may need a replacement image. Images are best if minimum 500x500px (but do not have to be square) and the center is the somewhat the focus. So basically, promo images and screenshots.
I do not recommend this used on trait pages, I might come up with a different template for those that is more appropriate. I also recommend to treat this like a table/infobox hybird, and to not use if infoboxes are already on the page. For now it is best to replace the All template with the Overview template but if adding to pages without All templates, note you must have at least an image. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 00:11, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
So I was thinking all pages that have {{Pagecover}} that {{All}} templates would just be removed, instead of replacing with {{Overview}} it just seems silly to have two templates that basically are different versions of the same thing. I think this will help clean up article clutter too. Hollowness| Talk| Contr 20:17, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
and 
as green, so I think it should be green. Here are my ideas:
This would replace 
as the "Child" parameter.
These would replace 
as the "Adopted Child" parameter and there would be neutral, male, and female versions.
This would replace 
, but it is on the opposite corner and is a different shape.
Father, 
Friend
Husband, 
Sweethearts
Property Owner, 
Acquaintance
16:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
