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How many times I have to say that wizard is NOT a life state... Bonifacius 03:08, February 26, 2012 (UTC)

they categorized as "NOT NORMAL" sim so they are lifestate. Wiryawan310 03:43, February 26, 2012 (UTC)
Agree with Bonifacius. Wizard is just a medieval job for a normal Sim. They're not "Occult". They don't have a special appearance. It's coded as such, why treat it as a life state? Kiwi tea 15:18, February 26, 2012 (UTC)
Um... I think Bonaficus and Kiwi Tea made their point here... It's true Wizard is only a medieval job. :/ Nikel Talk 14:44, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't the social bunny be added to the template? Golbolco (talk) 12:34, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should consider that social bunny is a special NPC, not a life state of its own... I guess. Nikel Talk Vote! 13:20, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Small enhancementEdit

Since editing is restricted on this template page, I'd like to ask to anyone who can to put "(The Sims 3)", which is at the side of "Vampire", in small letters. Just something small and a bit perfectionist from me, but it will look better and only takes 5 seconds. So it will look like this:

Vampire (The Sims 3)

Vampire <small>([[Vampire (The Sims 3)|The Sims 3]])</small>

Any other alternative to the <small> will do the job. --- ʀodrigo x (talk)(contribs) 11:28, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Seconded. Done. Nikel Talk Vote! 12:45, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Concerning the Gnome and MermaidEdit

Should the gnome and the mermaid be added to this? Golbolco (talk) 15:29, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

I know mermaid has been confirmed, but we still need more information about it. Why should gnome count? :/ Nikel Talk Vote! 17:46, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

observations Edit

Just something that I noticed.. aren't both vampires and servo's introduced in The Sims already? Servo's in Livin' Large and vampires in Makin' Magic (?) Tiezel (talk) curious? 10:32, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Vampires in Makin' Magic was just cosmetic changes. However, for Servo... I don't know. The list explicitly begins from The Sims 2 instead of the first series. :/ I'm not sure if it discriminates TS1. Nikel Talk Vote! 08:20, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
That's why I was asking, as zombies are mentioned to be introduced in Livin Large.. The same for the Genie btw. Tiezel (talk) curious? 10:57, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Now that the number of life states are growing... I'm inclined for a redesign of the template and omission of the expansion pack. I'm just not sure how it will look like. Nikel Talk Vote! 07:55, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Order of life statesEdit

While I can understand the reason why Genie was moved forward before Zombie, I must say that a lot of these life states had already been introduced even before The Sims 2 era, such as Werewolf, Vampire, Witch, and Servo. Even though, this navigation template had always listed them the way they were introduced in The Sims 2. The reason could be that "Vampires" and such might not be fully-fledged life states in The Sims era. They could be just cosmetics, or they could merely be NPCs.

I don't get why Genie should be the only one moved forward though. If one has to move Genie because of the reason I explained, all other life states should be moved forward as well. On the other hand, I like how the template looked like before it was rearranged. I could say the template had been inaccurate in the first place. Nikel Talk Vote! 16:35, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

The reason why I moved Genie to the place before Zombie is because I realized that someone had corrected that it was indeed introduced first in Livin' Large, then reappeared in Freetime. Why I also put it before Zombie despite both being introduced in Livin' Large is a matter of alphabetical order.
Now what comes in my mind that the lists were put in order of this:
  • Base game (TS1, TS2, TS3)
  • The Expansion Packs
Which it might be the reason for Ghost and Aliens are on the front (TS3 has no new life state introduced). That was my reason, in case it wasn't clear enough.
Now, speaking about whether those life states you mentioned were already appearing in The Sims Era as a valid life state or not. The same thing goes for Faerie Queen Mara which supposedly a fairy NPC, but it wasn't considered a full fledged life state. That might tell which life states are considered a complete part of the game or just a special NPC. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 16:53, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
What I don't understand was that why the attempt was to only correct Genie, while Servo, Vampire, Werewolf, and Witch (and Imaginary Friend) could still be considered the same way. So we should go with rearranging all of them, or reverting back the edit to the previous version. I'm favoring the latter, but I don't have a really good reason for this. I like that the life state was consistent since The Sims 2 era, even though it's supposed to be the incorrect order. Nikel Talk Vote! 17:08, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
If you say we revert them back, then so be it. We need to notify the others as well, so they wouldn't consider in questioning on which game those life states were introduced for the first time. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 17:45, October 26, 2013 (UTC)
To be fair, I do prefer the reverted version, but the decision was not mine. Bringing up this discussion into attention may not be very vital, but I don't prohibit anyone. If anyone wants to voice their opinion, they're free to do so. I've voiced mine though, but as I said, it's my opinion, not a decision. Nikel Talk Vote! 04:43, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I'd like to explain this again why I only moved Genie (supposedly, I could move the others as well, but hear first...). We have several life states that technically appeared even before their counterpart in TS2. Those are:

  • Genie (Livin' Large or Freetime OR Showtime)
  • Vampire (Makin' Magic or Nightlife)
  • Servo (Livin' Large or Open for Business)
  • Werewolf (Makin' Magic or Pets)
  • Witch (Makin' Magic or Apartment Life)

Now the reason I acknowledged the user's attempt on correcting it to LL because technically both Genies in LL and Freetime are unplayable life states. The same thing goes with the other life states I mentioned on the list above (They were only playable in the TS2 counterpart). So, I'd say we correct the Genie for being introduced fully in Showtime instead (if we're going to be consistent in saying that life states in TS1 are mostly cosmetic changes). --Frostwalker Talk to me! 05:23, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

You do have a good point there. You're right about that, but now I'm not really sure what action is best taken. Should we move Genie to the back, instead? Nikel Talk Vote! 06:22, October 27, 2013 (UTC)
Okay then, I'll let you move it to the back.
I wasn't expecting to see only two of us taking the action. Waiting for further discussion with the community. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 06:27, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't help but follow this; I see that I'm not the only one getting confused by this template (as said in my section above this one). Basically in my eyes you two narrowed it down to a few options:

  • Put the life states in game order + expansionpacks
  • Put the life states in order of appearing, even though they are only 'cosmetics' or NPC's
  • Put the life states in order of appearing,, but only when they are playable characters

What I think is that the first one will still make things confusing (you get the same discussion; when is which life state introduced?}. The second and third option seem more logical to me and maybe this is even worth it to let the community decide(?) Tiezel (talk) curious? 10:22, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

The third one is the current state of the template, except for the Genie. What I've been thinking about is that if we're going to order it based on when did those life states appeared first as a fully playable life states, then we'd want to have it placed in the back (after Imaginary Friend, because Genie is first playable only in Showtime).
And it seems you're right though. As mentioned by Nikel, this wouldn't the best course of action without having discussed first by the community. I'd prefer we leave this discussion open for a while, see what they can say about this. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 15:29, October 27, 2013 (UTC)
Well, for one thing, we can't attract much attention if we only discuss it here. Sure some should notice, but if we need more attention, perhaps we could make a thread at the forum about this.
Actually, what I had in mind was to shrink down the navigation template and simplify it more like Template:Animals, for example. But we don't have any basis to group up the life states like the animals. Or perhaps like Template:TalentBadges or Template:Rabbit holes, so it wouldn't discriminate any series. But I'm not too fond since it's way too simple for such a small list. Nikel Talk Vote! 14:48, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
I like the current one because life states are something different from the others and by having pictures above its names are helpful enough for readers to recognize which one is their looking for.
Other than that, I have nothing in mind if opening a discussion thread would be the best chance to determine which option we can use for this template. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 14:58, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, or we could just group it up by games like Template:Skills or Template:Lot types. Nikel Talk Vote! 15:22, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
Template:Skills seems like a good solution. That way, we won't have to worry about the order. --Frostwalker Talk to me! 15:41, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
Also, I don't see the need of including the life state images because they're space-consuming, so I'd actually prefer that way. Nikel Talk Vote! 15:46, October 30, 2013 (UTC)
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